Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
Downs
[00:00:00] <music>
Annie: Hi friends! Welcome to another holiday episode of That Sounds Fun. I'm your host
Annie F. Downs. I'm so happy to be here with you today. Oh, keep sticking around.
You know we have got those That Sounds Fun Network hosts telling us their
favorite Christmas snacks. I love how much y'all are loving that. Me too. More to
come today.
Before we dive into today's conversation though, I want to tell you about one of our
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Intro: Today on the show, y'all know at Christmas we love talking about cooking, we love
talking about decorating, we love talking about gift giving. So I made the call to
one of my favorite follows on Instagram and I'm so happy that I get to talk today
with my new friend, Sabrina Chazen.
Y'all have probably seen me share her recommendations on Instagram because I
love her. And she has helped me find some really fun clothes. Sabrina is an
inclusive fashion expert, helping brands extend their size ranges and sharing her
shopping finds and lifestyle. And she is really fun too.
If you're looking for some inspiration when it comes to your wardrobe or if you still
need a last-minute Christmas or Hanukkah or New Year's Eve party outfit idea, or
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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you're shopping for your girlfriends, go follow Sabrina on Instagram. Check out her
ideas.
I love that today we are getting to talk to one of our Jewish friends about her
celebration of Hanukkah and Christmas and her experience of the world right now
as well, as well as talking about what we should be shopping for and buying. It's a
fun and important episode. I think you're gonna love getting to know her and follow
her.
And she is linking to everything we talk about today. And I am telling you, you
need this eye roller she's gonna link so bad. You need it so bad. So here's my
conversation with Sabrina Chazen.
[00:02:32] <Music>
Annie: Sabrina Chazen, welcome to That Sounds fun.
Sabrina: Thank you. I'm so excited. This sounds fun.
Annie: Oh my gosh, what an honor. We have to back up and tell people we are friends
because we have mutual friends.
Sabrina: The "our meet cute" could be a real Hallmark movie. There's a lot of-
Annie: I know.
Sabrina: ...a lot of lead-up.
Annie: Because you were already friends with Devin when I was friends with Jared, right?
How long have you known our friend Devin that lives in your neck of the woods?
Sabrina: Whole life? Our dads are best, best friends.
Annie: Oh my gosh, I did not know that.
Sabrina: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Annie: Okay. And Jared was one of my Vanderbilt baseball players-
Sabrina: He's darling.
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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Annie: ...that was one of my Vandy boys, like a little brother to me. And when I saw you at
the wedding, I literally on the plane the next day I said to my friends, who was
that? She's fabulous.
Sabrina: Oh. For some reason, I was like, "Do we know each other before that and didn't
realize at the wedding?"
Annie: Uh-uh. No.
Sabrina: Internet friends, you know?
Annie: No. Yeah, yeah. And then my friend was like, "No, you know, she's like a big deal
influencer." And I was like, "No, I didn't, but now I will follow."
Sabrina: Well, that's very kind. I wish. But we're on our way. There's only...
Annie: Yeah.
Sabrina: Yeah.
Annie: The other place that we were in the same place at the same time, Wicked the
Musical.
Sabrina: Honestly, that is a night that I will never forget. It changed my life and my
daughter's life. And the weirdest part is that you are like the intrinsic circle
connection of the whole experience. So we're late to the show. I've seen Wicked
multiple times. I saw it with Adina, I've seen it with Kristen, I've seen it in the West
End.
But we were going to New York, I was taking my daughter for the first time and we
have friends... Same thing. Another mother and daughter. Coco was reading The
Wizard of Oz in third grade, so it was the perfect musical to take her to for her first
trip to New York. So we get tickets, there's traffic. So quintessential New York. We
have to get outta the cab, run to the show, the whole deal.
Annie: Oh my gosh.
Sabrina: I'm like, I'm a jumpy person. Haven't loved movie theaters for a while. We're in the
show and I see an usher like flash lighting to people and I'm like, "Oh my God,
what's going on? Something's wrong in the show." But I'm like trying to play it cool
because I want Coco to experience Broadway. Turns out it's you and your friends
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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because were there on her opening night play... Not opening. Her Broadway debut
as Elphaba. She's the understudy.
I've seen so many amazing theater shows, but for me that's number one. Like seeing
someone debut on Broadway with my daughter, all of you guys celebrating it, like,
I cried. I was like, I'm DMing your friend who played Elphaba, but like kook. And
then you messaged me and you were... Because I posted I was there and you were
like, "I was there."
Annie: It was the best night. Well, I mean, watching someone debut on Broadway is... I
don't know, a paralleled experience to me.
Sabrina: Right. And in that role, like to me, you know, I had been changed for good. And the
fact that you were there and it was your friend and Coco was there and I saw... I
mean, it was so magical and such a meet-cute for the books.
Annie: That's right. That's right. So will you back me up? Tell me how you got started
sharing about what people should be wearing and what they should be buying. How
did all this even kick off for you? This isn't what you studied in college.
Sabrina: No. Political science. However-
Annie: Oh.
Sabrina: ...right after college, I had a job in PR in LA and I got married very young. My
husband was in law school. We lived in LA. And I started a plus-size fashion blog
while I had a nine to five. It was literally... So what is that? 15 years ago. It was on
the precipice. Like when people first started blogging, you'd go to your desk in the
morning and check people's blogs, like actual URL dot coms.
But my husband was like, "I can't deal with taking these pictures." He's the nicest
human on earth and he's in law school, and he's like, "I'm not a photographer. I
don't have an eye. It's the only thing we bicker about." And he's like, "Hire a
photographer." And I was like, "I have a job. This is silly." And I kind of just let it
go.
And it had started picking up steam. It was called Sample Size 16. Neiman sent me
plus-size clothes. It had a little, you know, those girls. There was like 10 of them
total that started when I did, like, you know, millions of followers. They wrote for
Vogue and Glamor. They were the first people to help brands extend sizing. I
missed the boat. But then I got back on for a new ride during Covid when the
pandemic happened.
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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Annie: Oh, okay.
Sabrina: We were home, you know, whatever, and I just was like, "I'm just gonna post
clothes on my social media that was private and for friends. I made it public. I just
started and it worked. I think tagging people, climbing that hustling. So for the last
two and a half years I've been just doing that and I've had multiple collabs and you
know, got to consult for brands and help them extend their size range. This is a
collab that I'm wearing right now, but I guess we're not video.
Annie: We'll show clips too. So yeah.
Sabrina: So yeah, it was just organic in that way I guess.
Annie: I have been about the same size give or take a few sizes since I was in high school,
and I have often said, and I would love your thoughts on this, I have often said, if
I'd have been able to see mid-size, plus-size women styling clothes when I was in
high school, I would be so different.
I mean, some of the pain and suffering I felt toward my own body as a teenager I
think would be so different if I'd have had women like you and women like me who
were wearing mid-size plus size clothes in front of me going like, "Hey, you can
buy that shirt and you can buy those pants and here's how they look." Would your
life have been different if there'd have been used when you were younger?
Sabrina: I think I'm very unique in that I've always... like some people have an eye and I just
love clothes. My mom is similar. She's not as flashy as me, she's more understated,
but she made it possible for me to dress how I wanted at any size. And she's five
six. I'm six-two. She's petite and I'm not. But she always helped me find things. So
I had that innate.
But I have a daughter and I'm so glad that when she is one day, I hope never,
scrolling social media, so many people are gonna be in her face that look like her,
bigger than her, different than her, and exactly what you said. That was my mission
from day one. I did this series called same style, different size.
Annie: I love it.
Sabrina: And that's how I started really was matching with someone in a smaller body to
show like, this is how a size two looks in this garment and this is how a size 22
looks in this garment, and we both can wear it. And I think brands pick... I don't
think., I know. I mean, such a humble beginning here.
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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Annie: That's true.
Sabrina: The idea took off without me unfortunately but I'm glad that it took off. Like I
started doing that and then brands started doing that and then people started doing
that. And you see it a lot. You're gonna see like extra small size, large and size 3x in
the same garment. And people see that all the time now. You're welcome.
I do think it matters. And I do think it makes a difference. And I do think it will
help everybody. Because it's not just people in those bodies, it's people in smaller
bodies too who need to see that and be motivated to extend their sizing. And a lot
of brands are afraid.
It's not that easy just to scale up. Like we always say, just make two more sizes. But
everything changes as it gets bigger just like everything changes as something gets
smaller. It's not just a simple like make it bigger. But when they see the engagement
and the plus-size community supporting, then they're motivated. Like money talks
and statistics matter. The majority of people are a size 12, 14, 16, 18 in America.
Plus. Plus. Plus. So I think like seeing it, the representation, as you said, really does
make a difference on all ends.
Annie: I'm sure it existed to some degree in the 90s and early 2000s. I don't remember it.
Sabrina: No.
Annie: I mean, it wasn't in the magazines.
Sabrina: No. No.
Annie: We certainly didn’t have social media.
Sabrina: Or on the runways.
Annie: Right.
Sabrina: Just no.
Annie: Right. Now I can search mid-size clothing or plus-size clothing on Instagram and
find 20 women who have found things on Amazon. Though I'm not always a fan of
fast fashion. So find things at any store. Then I can go, Oh my gosh, that is how
that would look on me or close to how it would look on me." I mean, make fun of
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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me forever, people listening, but it has changed my confidence to have other
women showing me how clothes could look on me.
Sabrina: Of course. And everyone has different strengths, and not everyone's strength is
getting dressed. Nope. Some people don't want to spend all day finding something
either. So to be able to see something on someone you like the way you look, I
think... Like you said, teenage girls say all you will about social media, I agree with
you, but that's the plus side.
Annie: I'm going to list today all the things I've purchased that you have given me links for.
One of the things is a fish dress from Anthro-
Sabrina: Oh, there you go.
Annie: ...that I would have never picked out on my own, and I bought it to go to Greece. I
wore it on my birthday. I mean, it is-
Sabrina: Well, Oh, birth.
Annie: I know. When I saw it on you, I was like, "Oh, that's perfect.
Sabrina: It is.
Annie: So then I bought it and I loved it.
Sabrina: And it's in your poor memory.
Annie: And everybody else did too, Sabrina. Everybody else did too.
Sabrina: There you go. And then you'll always look at those pictures and remember grease
like that, eating your fish in a fish dress.
Annie: That's exactly right. In a fish dress. In a fish dress. Will you talk me through, as a
barely influencer or non-influencer because I don't share links all that much-
Sabrina: Oh, stop.
Annie: ...talk to me about what does a Tuesday look like for you? Are you like nine to five
sitting at a desk? What's a workday look like for a person who shares links to
clothes, shoes and things all day long?
Sabrina: It's 24/7. Because-
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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Annie: Is it?
Sabrina: Yeah. Some people are super organized, they have content calendars, they have ads
that are set to run at certain times, certain days. They turn it in and there's a lot of
backends. Like you just said, Anthropologie is a great partner. They are perfect for
me because the control is... is not minimal, but compared to others, it's minimal.
They say, "Turn it in by this day, give us two days to approve it, and then go ahead.
Pick something off this site." It's very organic and authentic in the sense of like, "I
picked that dress before I got offered the ad." I had already shared it from the
dressing room, they allowed me to reshare it. It's super organic. So a Tuesday could
be... I do things in real-time for the majority, which is very rare. Also, I timestamp
most things.
Annie: It's incredible.
Sabrina: I post as I go, as I buy, as I shop, as I wear, as I put it on. I share it almost live,
which is not the norm. A lot of people, like I said, calendar things. Today is Anthro
day, tomorrow is Nordstrom's, the next day is Target. I don't have an ad for four
days so I'm gonna share holiday decor. You know, people organize it that way. I
don't like.
And honestly, some brands I know when a sale is going to happen, and some I
don't. So when I see it, I post it very live. It's all day every day truly. Like what I
eat, where to buy it, where to... I get to be a full-time mom too, which is the biggest
blessing. That's something I really believe in for people. This has given me a career
while being a stay-at-home mom. So yeah, sometimes I can't do everything and I'm
dropping balls, but it's not nine to five, it's round the clock.
I think engagement is not just important for the algorithm but for
community-building trust. I get thrills from connecting to people. I'm answering
DMs all day. Like, I have to sit down and say like, "I'm gonna go through these
DMs for one hour and then I let it go." And then three hours later I come back and
there might be 40 more. I always say it's like someone at a desk has to answer
emails, I have to answer these messages. Some are happier and more fun to answer
than others but I really do try and answer all my DMs. And I hope I always can.
Annie: People are kind.
Sabrina: I actually have a very kind community, but sometimes... and a lot of... even I think
the ones who don't mean to, it's like I work for them. Link. Link. Link. I'm like,
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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"How about, hi, how are you?" But it's just link, dress, shoe. A lot of people want to
chat, then I become a therapist, a friend. It's all different. It's you run the gamut of
people.
I don't get a lot of... I will say I've had some, but I don't get a lot of body shaming,
which is a blessing. I don't get a lot of like, shut up, you know, fat what. I see other
plus creators post that a lot. It doesn't happen to me. I get a lot of antisemitism
lately. I get certain things that are a little negative. But like for the most part it's
pretty positive and it's a nice space. And I like talking to the people.
Annie: The idea of body shaming online is so surprising to me for a creator who is sharing
clothing, whether you're being shamed for being small, shamed for being tall, short,
large, whatever it is. It doesn't make any sense to me because I'm like, well, don't
you understand that that's what they're... they're actually showing you their body to
help people. I don't know. That doesn't make sense to me, I guess.
Sabrina: Any troll behavior behind the screen will never make sense to a sane human. That's
just the bottom line. You have to accept that these people aren't making sense, like
you said. Let it go.
Annie: A lot of times you'll do things like, tell me what you need and you'll do a question
box. And then someone will say, "I'm going to my sister's wedding outside in
England and I need size 16 to 18." And then you'll find like seven dress options. Do
you have your favorite go-tos that you're always like, Okay, lemme go check these
five places or...? Tell me the process of how you find... Because the next person
will say, "I need shoes for a formal dinner in Barcelona.
Sabrina: You know how... I don't know who it is, Jimmy Kimmel, some late night host, has
the celebrity read the tweets about them. We gotta do that with the questions
because you get... and I like it. I say be specific. Because sometimes people are
like, "Going to a wedding in December." And I'm like, where? Are you going to
Iceland or are you going to Alaska? Are you gonna Hawaii? Is it on the beach? Is it
black tie? Is it informal? Is it in a ball gown? Is it in a church? Are you going to
Burning Man wedding? Like I need to know. And do you wear a size 2 or a 24?
So yes, I like when it's specific, but you gotta giggle because sometimes it literally
is what you just said. Going to a castle in Edinburgh in February could be cold, but
you know, like it's a whole spiel. And I love to do that.
And obviously there's places I normally look and it does get redundant. I swear
we're gonna make with Show Me Your Mumu, a black dress that you can wear to
an event from a sizes extra, extra small to a size 3X that is universal. Because
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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events people really ask that over and over and over. And I'm like, I just shared five
black dresses. Do you need another one?
Annie: I bought one of the black dresses you shared for New Year's last year, black
sequence, and I loved it.
Sabrina: Well, I'll just keep on going. I like the question boxes. It's a lot of work because like
you said, I don't have a uniform answer. Like I really do go search all day and a
stylists get paid for a reason. And this is a free service. So that's why we really
appreciate when you use our links. But I like the question box. And I don't have a
go... I mean, some places you go over and over that you trust, but for the majority, I
look specifically to their request.
Annie: So do you just Google?
Sabrina: No, I know where I shop. Or because I shop so much and scroll so much, if
someone says something specific, it will trigger, I'll be like, I saw that on Shopbop.
Like that floral dress that she needs to go to Kauai in March for this person's
bachelorette. That's perfect. And like I'll just go type in on Shopbop, you know.
Sponsor me Shopbop and extend your sizing. So yeah, sometimes it will just trigger
a memory of seeing an item or a garment and then sometimes I'll just search.
Annie: That is so impressive. It is-
Sabrina: Google is wild. You should never type into Google like "floral dress". They'll send
you to some sketchy site from some children's workshop in the East. And it's not...
yeah.
Annie: How do you balance that, Sabrina? How do you make sure that the places you're
sending people are as ethical as possible for you to know?
Sabrina: It's a hard one for a uniquely plus-sized audience. People ask me a lot... a friend
who's an editor at Vanity Fair when I first started a couple years ago, said like,
"Let's not do so much fast fashion." And I said, "Well, then let's produce more
extended sizing in contemporary wear because it doesn't really exist." That's a study
on socioeconomic. That's a big picture. That's not a fun conversation to have
because they target socioeconomic people who tend to be bigger. It's a very
complicated answer.
Places like Sheen or Sheen or whatever you want to call it, I don't post it anymore
because, you know, they were selling swastikas, but they produce plus-size
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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clothing. I'm not gonna stop buying it from most places until other places offer me
the same. It's very complicated.
Annie: It's really complicated.
Sabrina: I do try, like I just said. There are some moral equivalences that I just won't, you
know. But yeah, fast fashion has serviced plus-sized people more than
ready-to-wear has historically. People are changing and there's brands that are
doing terrific jobs. And I try to share them mostly.
H&M you think of it as fast fashion and they're really trying to be globally more
ethical in their production and in their waste. And you can see on their website they
tell you the percentage that they're working to, they tell you where the... so some
fast fashion is moving towards ethical practice, sustainable practice. And I do try.
But that's a big conversation because, you know.
And when brands meet with me and they say we want to start extending sizes, but
we've noticed that the community, you know, isn't willing to spend $400 on a
sweater, I'm like, "Because they've never been serviced. They're not used to it."
They can say, "We can just go to Walmart, which carries my size in store, and buy a
$30 sweater at Walmart."
So what's gonna train them, to train us, train people to then spend 400 on a sweater
from a smaller, ethical, sustainable, more fashionable situation? It's like a
generational thing that we're... I think that's changing, we're moving towards. But
that's a problem with fast fashion and plus-size interlude.
Annie: I am learning real time. I have never thought about how much easier it is to get a
wide variety of sizing and the cheaper the clothes are.
Sabrina: Yeah, it's a fact.
Annie: That is fascinating.
Sabrina: The fashion has... you know, high fashion-
Annie: Where's that documentary? That's what you need to make is a documentary on how
to ethical fashion for all sizes.
Sabrina: Right. It's hard.
Annie: Dude.
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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Sabrina: People are trying.
Annie: Yeah.
Sabrina: Mm-Hmm.
Annie: Wow.
[00:21:47] <Music>
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Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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Okay, now back to our conversation with Sabrina.
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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[00:25:25] <Music>
Annie: It is a funny thing when you walk into stores. I mean, I don't know how old you are,
sorry. I'm 43, but I grew up with the 579 store. I never walked into it once. To me,
that was the nice store. And I thought, well, I don't swear single digits. I haven't
worn single digits since elementary school.
Sabrina: Or even big department stores legally have to curate... like they have to have a baby
section. Like a Macy's or even a Bloomingdale's. No matter how nice you are,
when you get labeled a department store, it's a part of... I don't know what contract
we gotta get the counselor back. You have to carry a baby, you have to carry plus,
you have to have a kitchen. You have to cover run the gamut.
So then, you know, growing up we would go to Bloomingdale's right by our house
at Fashion Island with friends in high school, and they would go to the third story
where it's fashionable and cute and I'd be with the kitchenware in the bottom corner
secretly, like where they shoved the little corner of plus size. So even if they had it,
it was like an afterthought, shameful experience. You can never just shop with your
friend in the regular fashionable tween area.
Annie: What you're seeing now is how much better than that. It's not all the way better than
that. It's not like, well, now it's all just fine. We're all equal shmequal. What do you
see happening?
Sabrina: The wildest part is what we just talked about. It went forward and it's going back
again because I think these brands so many terrific, you know, ready-to-wear
brands started extending, didn't get the response fast enough. It's very expensive.
It's a risk, right? You have investors, right? And you're saying like, we're gonna
spend this much and try to make up to a 2x. And then you produce and then it
doesn't sell, and then you're sitting with this inventory and you haven't moved it and
then the risk is too large to keep going. But things take time.
I've talked about before and it sound like a, you know, beating a dead horse here,
but even Old Navy, which to me is pretty mainstream accessible, like the ultimate
American accessible strip mall store, they make plus online always, up to a 4x, you
know, all the things.
They tried to put it in stores equally a year ago, they did this whole thing, one
quarter and they went like into the red 25% deficit. Things were sitting on the floor,
nothing was moving. The size twos... I think eights is their like bread and butter.
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They sold out too fast because then people would go in the store, there wouldn't be
size eights because they were scaling wrong.
They would put the same amount of 8Xs as the same amount of eights. People who
didn't know that it's in store yet, they saw a huge 25% drop. They can't afford that.
They took it off the floors immediately. They only left it in certain stores that are in
socioeconomic areas that they know people are the majority of size 3x, 4x. So they
kept them in a couple stores and then they pulled it so fast because they can't take
that risk.
So imagine being a small company. I don't want to name names, but they're small,
fashionable companies that tried and they pulled it very fast. Staud is one of them,
S-T-A-U-D, a brand I love. I was so excited. But we're not trained to keep going
back for $500 dresses over and over. People didn't know it was being made. They
pulled it within a year.
So I think like a lot want to or tried or were convinced that like this is the way to
go, and then they were like, it's a business. You see the dotted line and you can't.
And they pulled back too fast. So, yeah.
Annie: When people are getting gift cards at Hanukkah, at Christmas this year, where are
your favorite stores? If they just had a Visa gift card and they're like, You know
what? I want to buy some fashionable clothes for my body, whatever their sizing is.
Where are some of your favorite stores that have a wide variety? Like where should
we be shopping? I don't like to should but you know what I mean.
Sabrina: No, you should listen. Your fish dress is a perfect example. Anthropologie does a
really good job. Yeah, they do. Another big box-
Annie: They make you feel so normal in the store.
Sabrina: Right.
Annie: It's just like, oh, look at all these sizes. I really appreciate that.
Sabrina: Well, every store carries their extended range, but I would take a gift card. And
certain ones do. And they try. Like the flagships are extending. I just think they do a
really good job in the sense of their internal production is producing a lot of plus
their brands. And when they do collabs with brands, they force them to sometimes
extend the sizes they've never done before.
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I have a friend who has a workout clothing and—I shouldn't say that. It's a big
brand now. It's a lifestyle brand—and she's doing a collab with Anthro and it's the
first time she'll produce plus because Antho is backing it.
Annie: Wow.
Sabrina: It's kind of like when a brand collabs with Target and they say like, That's why
everyone's like, you only buy the Target Love Shack Fancy. I'm like, because Love
Shack Fancy stops at an extra-large. When they collab with Target, they go through
to a 3x. It's not just because it's more affordable. It's because Target allows them the
production end to carry the inventory of the plus size.
So Anthro is great. Another big box store that honestly does a really good job is J
Crew. J Crew makes everything. Almost everything. I would say 95% except some
of their more expensive collection line. They make everything from a size triple,
extra small to a triple extra-large. And they really do it across the board. It's not just
a couple of skews. Like they try and produce everything in petite to plus. It's classic
and fashionable.
They have a really great director right now, Olympia Marie, and she's moving it
into like... you know, I don't think, not to put the Gap down, I buy things from the
Gap. But I don't think of it as a Gap. Like J Crew has moved into fashion more.
Annie: It feels like that. The one in Nashville particularly feels like it's had some sort of
shift out of like Khaki White Oxford, which I love into pattern. It feels like it's
taken... Like something has turned left, but something.
Sabrina: Exactly. It turned up.
Annie: It turned up. That's exactly right. They turned up. I'm thinking of some gifts you
share a lot. This is our like holiday gifting show.
Sabrina: Yeah, let's do it.
Annie: So what are some gifts that we should be giving, could be giving this Christmas
that we can still get 10 days out from needing to have everything wrapped?
Sabrina: Have you ever tried the Ice Roller?
Annie: Girl, I have one.
Sabrina: Okay.
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Annie: I have both. I have the pink and the green, and it is... I'm already gifting it to the
person that I'm in charge of at Christmas. I hope my cousin doesn't listen to this.
Sabrina: I buy it for everyone. I put them in... they go everywhere. I gave one to my dad. I'm
like, I don't care who you are. He gets headaches sometimes or dizzy. I'm like, just
put that ice roll on your eye, push it around and you're gonna feel better. So
everyone needs an ice roller.
You can get an entry-level, which I love the Amazon one. I'm sorry. Thanks. Jeff
Bezos. It's $10. And then people swear by the Skinny Confidential. She's an
influencer and she makes her own and it's like a $70 ice roller.
Annie: Oh, I haven't tried that. I have your $10 one.
Sabrina: They say it stays cold longer and it is terrific, but I do like my cheapy. But if you're
fancy and bougie, you can get the fancy one. But ice rollers are absolutely a
necessity for everyone, teenagers to grandmas.
Annie: Where do we find jewelry if we want to give jewelry this year?
Sabrina: Well, that's the other thing. Same thing. Different price ranges. There's so many.
Houston Diamond Girl is terrific. She's on Instagram and she really... it's authentic
stones at retail... it's not at retail prices, it's at wholesale pricing. She does a really
good job with pricing.
My friend Ariel Gordon, I love all of her stuff. I always wear a strawberry opal she
makes. I wear her helium hearts every day. She's terrific.
Honestly, people are super into this Lab Grown Diamonds girl, Dorsey,
D-O-R-S-E-Y. I am a fan of the styles. I don't have any yet, but people really love
them. They're very popular. That's the new thing is Lab grown. I have not gone into
that yet. All my stuff's real or fake fake. You know, like there's no inter. I don't have
that yet, but it's very popular.
Annie: I don't even know what lab grown is. Lab grown diamonds.
Sabrina: Yes. It's like the thing which scares me a little because they say you can take it to a
jeweler and they test the same as a diamond.
Annie: Oh boy.
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Sabrina: So it's like not a cubic or cone or whatever those little stones are called and it's not
a diamond. It's lab. I don't know if it's a diamond. They grow them in the lab and
they mirror the scientific... what makeup of a real diamond.
Annie: Dear whoever marries me, get one of those. Get one of those. I don't care.
Sabrina: That is actually an argument as you said ethically. People say there's no ethical
argument. There's no blood on that diamond. It's grown in a lab in America. They're
very popular.
Annie: Wow.
Sabrina: I'm not endorsing that for all fiancés out there, just so you know. However, it's a
great option. It's a great option. Very popular jewelry. I wear so much jewelry. I
could talk about jewelry all day to be honest. Everyone needs a signet ring. I would
say that. Google that up. Get yourself a monogram signet ring. Wear it on your
pinky. It feels very royal. I've worn one my whole life. I'm like such a jewelry
person.
What else do we want? A pearl? I love pearls. Arielle Gordon makes my favorite
pearl. And it's actually, I would say not to put her pricing down. Her stuff can feel
very luxury. And the pearl that I love is more accessible. I think it's $300, maybe
$250. It's a drop Baroque pearl you can put on any chain and you can put-
Annie: Beautiful.
Sabrina: ...put on the pearl, I'm not wearing it currently, but I love it and I wear it very often.
You can have Birthstones put on it. She'll put three little stones on the pearl, which
is super cute. So for me, I put my two children's birthstones and then my husband's
birthstone is the same as mine. So we have all three on my pearl that I wear. It's a
super good gift. Mother's Day, Christmas, you name it. Like it's personal and a
great heirloom piece of jewelry.
Annie: What else are we gifting this year?
Sabrina: So many. I gift myself a lot, unfortunately. I just ordered-
Annie: That's my problem on Cyber Monday is I become my own Santa Claus.
Sabrina: Right. That's the thing. Ho ho ho. Mrs. Claus is gonna be sparkling. I love this
small brand on Instagram. Her name is Young + Wild and Friedman. I'm gonna
look it up right now. She does sensory kits for kids and they are the best. Like all
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themes. Christmas, Hanukkah, Easter birthday. My son had one that was like... not
fire trucks. Construction trucks. Like all different things. Young + Wild and
Friedman.
And she does the best Mom of 4 Original Play Dough Kit Sensory play. Well, she's
doing great. 200,000. Look her up. Young + Wild and Friedman. And she does
sensory bins and she does holiday kits. Those are terrific gifts for kids because
they're cute, happy, you're supporting a small business and they're good for them.
So yes, that's the only gift I've ordered for my children besides squishmallow and
sensory bins from Young + Wild and Friedman. Yeah, she's great.
I think it's such a nice thing because like I said, it's good for their mind, you're
supporting a small business and she does everything you could think of. She does
Santa. I think she does an elf kit. She does all-
Annie: Oh, cute.
Sabrina: Oh gosh. We're halfway through that Elf on the Shelf life. It's a lot. Gifting. Oh, I
just bought a bunch of sets from Merit that I'm gonna give as like thank you gifts.
Le Labo Candles. Antho has a roll on that smells like my mom's Estee Lauder
Gardenia perfume that's $300 and the roller's $14. I bought a lot of those.
Annie: Oh my gosh.
Sabrina: You could give an ice roller, a Gardenia perfume roller, a candle. I mean that
sounds so basic, but people like that. I'm not a Stanley Cup giver, so don't expect
me to give Stanley Cups. but I am a canvas tote bag giver. Monogram that.
Annie: Girl.
Sabrina: You could put all your favorites-
Annie: You know, I bought ten last night.
Sabrina: See. We're in a little bit of a turmoil at my house right now moving and there are so
many canvas bags around. Sports. Each kid has one. One says junk. I just shove
them. But they're really great gifts truly for kids, for parents, for friends, for
bachelorettes, for everything. Like just canvas bag. And you can't have enough. So
if someone already has one, it doesn't matter.
Annie: I used your link to get the L.L.Bean ones that's zip closed.
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Sabrina: Yeah, we like the zip.
Annie: I was like, I don't have a single one that zip closes. So I'm gonna get... for our
family vacation this summer, we do like a tote bag with some things in it. I'm the
welcome committee of the family vacation, so I'm in charge of that part.
Sabrina: Wow.
Annie: You guys are fancy.
Annie: Oh, well we just are extra. I'm not sure we're fancy because I got L.L.Bean bags for
whatever, $15 each or some crazy deal.
Sabrina: But personalized. That's such a dream. That's another argument. We could talk
about the L.L.Bean versus the Lands' End bags. They're very similar but very
different because-
Annie: Oh, which ones did I get last night? Did I get Lands' End? What code did you
share?
Sabrina: They both could have. Last night was Lands' End. L.L.Bean is different. The fabric
is good. I buy them both. But they're different. It's like cult following. Some people
are very loyal to one or the other. Not me. I'm cheating over here. I got them all
floating around.
Annie: That's right. Okay. What are the differences?
Sabrina: The zipper on the L.L.Bean is gold. It is a little bit... I like that look. It's got a gold
zipper. The Land's End one is like just a canvas zipper. Land's End has an inside
pocket. You got the inside pocket, which is a clutch. I really love a pocket because
you know I'm shoving lip gloss and sunscreen and headbands and hairbands and ice
rollers, shoving everything into the pocket. The L.L.Bean looks a little sheer, but
there's no pocket. So they're different. And the strap lengths are different.
Annie: Wow.
Sabrina: One is stiffer than the other. This is very important knowledge.
Annie: No kidding. This is why you're the expert, Sabrina. When we were planning out our
Christmas episodes, I was like, I know exactly who I need to tell us what to buy
this year. Give us an option for the men in our lives. What are we getting them this
year?
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Sabrina: Men, oh my gosh. It's so boring. I bought Alex New AirPods.
Annie: Great.
Sabrina: I don't even know if they're called EarPods or AirPods, but he uses them all the
time. We were driving the other day and I was talking about Israel and I looked at
him and I said, "Are you listening?" He was driving so his right ear is facing my
left side and there's nothing in it. I'm like, Hello? And then he secretly had it in the
other ear, he was listening to a podcast, which is great for your business, but a little
frustrating for me.
Annie: For your marriage.
Sabrina: Yeah. Men. Oh, I always tell people to buy a pressure washer. Amazon has a
perfect one. I'm gonna link it when this goes up. It's a gift to all because it's a
honeydew. You go use that pressure washer and it's addicting, like magical how
good it is. And it's so reasonable. Some of them are $500. This one's like 140 and
sometimes it gets a 30% off, a 10% off a daily deal. I love a pressure washer as a
gift. So there you go.
Also, I will link this non-commissionable, but I'm gonna not gatekeep here. If your
husband golfs the counselor is a sneakerhead and you can turn any pair of sneakers
into golf shoes. He has this website that he loves. He always says like that's the best
gift you can get. Like a pair of Nikes, send it off-
Annie: Oh wow.
Sabrina: Like Air Force ones suddenly are golf shoes. And this brand puts the bottom on for
you. That's a cool gift if a man golfs in your life. Monogrammed Crystal like... oh,
you're from Tennessee. Like an old-fashioned whiskey glass. I get those sometimes
for people. I have a good link for that.
Annie: Okay. You'll share all these today when everybody's listening, so we can go and...
great.
Sabrina: Happy to.
Annie: I'll share them too, but that's great.
[00:42:06] <Music>
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Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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And now back to finish up our conversation with Sabrina.
[00:45:38] <Music>
Annie: Okay, so your family is Jewish, so y'all are in the midst of celebrating Hanukkah.
Sabrina: Yeah.
Annie: I've never celebrated Hanukkah. Do you seriously get gifts every night? Do you get
nice gifts every night?
Sabrina: Everyone's different. I'm also someone who loves Christmas and does a lot of
presents on Christmas. I hope this doesn't offend you or your listeners, but I always
say that there was no Jew that loves Christmas more than Jesus and I.
Annie: That's right.
Sabrina: So we really do Christmas gifts a lot. My husband grew up with eight terrific gifts
on Hanukkah. I do little like stocking stuffer type gifts on Hanukkah. I do the first
night something significant, sometimes the last night. His parents send eight gifts
for the kids, which I'm always like, no, no, just give them like a set of crayons and
some socks tomorrow. So I think every family does it differently. I really focus on
lighting the candles and celebrating the festival of lights for Hanukkah, not the
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presents. And then at Christmas we do a lot of presents. But I think everyone's
different. It depends.
Annie: How did you and Alex meet?
Sabrina: College. He was in my cousin's fraternity in undergrad. We had a Jewish fraternity.
We had a water polo game. I was visiting their college that weekend and I went to
their fraternity softball game. So yeah. Young. We were babies.
Annie: And you said, That one. You said that second baseman is mine.
Sabrina: Anyone over six foot here, that's great.
Annie: Was it important to you when you were dating to marry a Jewish man?
Sabrina: Yes. I feel more today than ever. But what do you do? It's a modern world. Love is
love. I'm not a monster. But yes, I do feel know-
Annie: Well, I'm looking for a Christian man. I don't think it's monstrous to find someone
who matches your ideals and your ideas and wants your family values and the faith
that you value.
Sabrina: Absolutely. I feel really strongly about that. Like, when you're in your home, it just
makes things easier. Life is hard enough. Like you need to share those values. And
not to get holy ruler on you, but I really feel that way for Jews. We're 0.02% of the
world, you know? We have faced genocide for thousands of years and pogroms and
all those things. The Jewish bloodline is really dying. And I sound like a
90-year-old Holocaust survivor-
Annie: No.
Sabrina: ...but I really feel strongly about it. I obviously, if my child meets someone and
marries them that's not Jewish, I love them. It's fine. But I do, it is important to me.
That's my preference. I hope this doesn't come back to bite me that it's on audio, but
it's important. It really is. It's a religion sure, but it's also an ethnicity that's dying
and a culture. There's 14 or 15 million total in the world. People have more
Instagram followers than that tenfold.
Annie: It is one of the most interesting things that a relatively small community is the
center and the narrative of the world.
Sabrina: Yeah. I mean, we could turn that corner and talk about that. I think it's-
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Annie: Yeah. I'd love for you too because it's been... I told you this before we started, but I
have been really... I want to honor you for how you have gone to work every day
and done your job every day while really suffering and being afraid and being sad
about the state of the world for Jewish people right now.
Sabrina: Yeah. It's a very real thing at the forefront of my mind all day, every day. I don't
know how to emphasize the fact that we are 0.02% of the world. I don't understand
how atrocities can happen to us. And people who we have marched with for every
other cause aren't horrified and passionately supporting.
You know, I don't care if you don't like the politics of Israel. This is one country the
size of New Jersey that exists for a reason, you know? 6 million Jews were
murdered in World War II 70 years ago. It wasn't 2,000 years ago. But if you want
to talk 2,000 years ago, I'm happy to. But I feel very strong that... my husband is,
you know... every time I get scared, he's like, you have to keep speaking and be
proud. It's the most important.
I saw a video yesterday of an Israeli soldier... When you live in Israel, you
mandatory military service when you turn 18. And they said, "Hey, American Jews,
think of this as your service. You should be fighting the online antisemitism and the
information wars." Like tell the truth. Show what's really happening.
I really believe we're looking at good versus evil. I'm not anti-Palestinian. I'm pro
two-state solution. I believe in everyone's plight to life. But we're fighting a
terrorist organization who wants to wipe every Jew off the world. And they're not
stopping with Jews, I'm sorry, they're coming for Christians next. Like they have
said in their charter and out loud first the Saturday people, then the Sunday people.
I watched a video with the son of Hamas who lives in Florida. His father was
literally a founding member of Hamas. Today I watched it. He said if Israel fails in
Gaza, we are all next. And I really believe that. And I don't understand how the
Western world specifically would not be supportive of that, because for me, it's
pretty clear.
Obviously, there's nuances to everything, but when someone says, but, but, but. I'm
like, there is no but. These people broke into ba... this is unprecedented. You've
never seen babies ripped out of beds and murdered. We've just never seen this kind
of cruelty.
And they're not stopping there. And unfortunately, it's a bigger axis. Like this is
Iran. We marched with the women of Iran. We don't want the regime there. I
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support Iranian people. This is all at axis of that. And you want to be a part of
supporting that? It's so ironic to me and stupid.
Everything feels shocking and scary. I've kind of stopped saying much because this
is a job and I do want to bring joy and I do want to go shopping, and I'm learning,
which I've never done before to try and separate these two things. But it's near
impossible.
Annie: I think you've balanced it beautifully from an observer's side because you have told
the truth of what you are feeling as a Jewish woman raising Jewish children and
Jewish family and you still give us links. And as we talked about before, I mean,
nurses are still going to work and teachers... I mean, this is your job. But it's harder
when it's your face and you're doing carpool catwalk and you're putting lip gloss on
in the car and having to share links where you're going through that.
Sabrina: I think a fundamental thing to say about what you just said, and I don't want to cry,
is that is a Jewish principle. Like we will still celebrate Simchas, which are happy
occasions. Like life is the most important thing to Jewish people. That is the Old
Testament. Life comes first and you can't succumb, I mean, this is American too, to
terrorism.
Like I'm not gonna not make money because a terrorist is trying to murder every
member of our bloodline. I'm not going to not spread joy and have light and raise
my children and feel safe where I... you know, you have to go on. People have to
get married, babies have to be born, and we need to celebrate those things in every
life and every moment.
I think that's a core value of Judaism. And I hope that that shines through. It doesn't
mean I'm not dark behind the scenes or when my kids go to bed and all those
things, but it's so important. Like what else is there?
Annie: I mean, the beauty of Hanukkah is that it is this... the oil lasted. Like there was light
in darkness. And so my hope is this year is y'all have been celebrating Hanukkah
and your Hanukkah is, as people are hearing this, it's a couple of days left that it
just feels like a light season in the midst of a really dark season for our Jewish
friends.
Sabrina: I think it shows we all have to believe that the light will prevail and that miracles
will always happen. You know, history shows us that we've still exist and that light
will always shine through.
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Annie: I mean, the Jewish people, you're God's chosen people. I mean, that is not ever
gonna be undone, you know?
Sabrina: Yeah.
Annie: I mean, even to us, Jesus talked all the time about like, I'm a Gentile, I'm grafted in
to your family, right? But you are the chosen people.
Sabrina: Well, I don't know, scriptural, I'll take any support, but I sure wish people would
wake up and, you know, for whatever reason, whether it's religious, moral, any
survival democratic that people would start realizing like, what's going on and the
actual facts, the truth. I've been there. I'm telling you the facts. This is not... you
know, we lived through 911. And now the TikTok generation is celebrating Bin
Laden. Like-
Annie: Shocking.
Sabrina: It's surreal. Watching hostages be exchanged, innocent families taken from their
homes, for people who have stabbed and attempted murder and tried to blow things
up. And that's supposed to be a moral equivalence? I don't know how people don't
see and aren't outraged on the other side or scared for themselves if that's what it
has to come down to.
Annie: One of the beautiful things about living in New York during this season has been
I'm up close to a lot more Jewish family and friends than I am in Nashville. I have a
few, but not as many. And not far from my house, maybe early November... I don't
think I've told you this, Sabrina. Maybe early November on a Friday night, I got off
the subway and I turned the corner and there was a huge Shabbat meal laid out
outside. And I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't even know there was a temple right
here. I didn't know there was a synagogue right here. And it was actually a table set
out for all of the kidnapped-
Sabrina: They've done that a lot.
Annie: Oh. I mean, the kids... I mean, I stood there and just cried and I thought, this is
showing me what I could not see that there's a Sippy cup on this table next to this
child's poster. So being privileged to see that up close here changed me. So I am
grateful I turned left outta the subway instead of right that one day, I don't know
why, and got to see that.
Sabrina: I'm grateful too because people need to see that and need to understand that there's
a difference between a prisoner of war who's a soldier, and not that I think that's
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
Downs
great, and a child with a sippy cup taken from their Shabbat table, it's just
unfathomable.
Annie: Yes. Yes. Agreed. Well, thank you for talking about that. It mattered to me that we
got to chat about that because in a terrible time it's been beautiful to watch you
bring as much of that as you felt comfortable to bring to your social media life. So
thank you for talking about that and for sharing about that.
Sabrina: Thank you. And I hope if people are listening, you know, we're not only getting
information from influencers like me. Obviously, I have a unique perspective. My
husband has spent a lot of time there. He happens to be quite learning about it. But
I still believe in, you know, the media and true journalists and books that I can
recommend. There's people out there with a lot of information that I would love to
share. If you're more interested, you can always DM me.
Annie: Thank you.
Sabrina: Mm-hmm.
Annie: Sabrina, thanks for making time to do this today.
Sabrina: Of course.
Annie: You gave us a lot of information and lots of gifts we can buy.
Sabrina: I hope it was fun. I hope that there's things you want-
Annie: It was fun for me.
Sabrina: Me too.
Annie: The last question we need to ask you though is, on this special holiday episode
edition, what is a favorite holiday snack that we have got to try?
Sabrina: Oh my gosh, guys, holiday snacks are wild. I have a confession. I am an Instacart
addict. I'm always adding to the cart. But I, this last couple weeks, keep going into
stores and everybody's making holiday snacks. Like I saw-
Annie: That's so good.
Sabrina: It's so good. I'm in love with those pretzels. Gosh, I should have looked up the
brand. I didn't know you were gonna ask me. The flat pretzels that they dip in dark
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
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chocolate and there's all the flavors. They have ones with candy canes on them
right now. Peppermint.
Annie: Absolutely. I know what you're talking about. Yes
Sabrina: Pretzel with dark chocolate, that is unbelievable. I just keep eating those.
Annie: I agree.
Sabrina: And in my head I'm like, it's just a pretzel.
Annie: It's a pretzel. This is a carb.
Sabrina: It's just a pretzel. But I will say we had a flop. I got so excited about the Ritz
making, the fudge-covered Ritz. Because everyone knows about Christmas crack,
right?
Annie: Yeah. Yeah.
Sabrina: Like, people take their Ritz crackers and dip them in butter and make it like a toffee
chocolate. It's not the same as when grandma makes it.
Annie: No.
Sabrina: Like the boxed packaged fudge Ritz didn't do it for me, and the homemade version
does.
Annie: That's great to know because the homemade version to me is like when I see
those... when we do tours, one of our friends that comes to multiple shows, she will
often bring us like a tray of chocolate differences.
Sabrina: See?
Annie: And I did not slow down eating those.
Sabrina: That's what I mean. And when I saw a boxed one, I was like, oh my god. Nabisco
hit the jackpot genius.
Annie: Right, right.
Sabrina: And then I was like, what's happening? I posted them, I'm like, can someone
explain? These are either the best thing or the worst thing. I can't figure out. The
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
Downs
amount of replies of people like, try putting peanut butter, try putting some extra
chocolate. Like dip it in your own. Put a little Malden salt on it. I'm like, I'm not
supposed to have to doctor it. That's the point.
Annie: Shouldn't have to work this hard. Right, right. I paid for it.
Sabrina: So that was a flop. But the dark chocolate cupboard pretzels with the peppermint is
a real problem.
Annie: That's the one.
Sabrina: Yeah, that's the one.
Annie: We should share that with your Amazon affiliate link too to Amazon to get through
those.
Sabrina: Those are life-changing.
Annie: Agreed.
Sabrina: I just sat the full Thanksgiving break and I haven't stopped since.
Annie: Well done. Happy Hanukkah. Do we say that every day of Hanukkah? Is that true?
Sabrina: Yeah. Happy everything, right?
Annie: Happy everything.
Sabrina: Like I said, let's celebrate it all, buy it all, shop, celebrate, gift. I love an ornament
exchange. I am all for happy holidays.
Annie: Happy holidays. Thanks, Sabrina. I appreciate you.
Sabrina: Thank you so much.
[01:00:36] <Music>
Outro: Oh, you guys, don't you just love her? I'm so grateful for what she taught us about
her experience in the last few months, but also all the things she taught us that we
need to buy for ourselves and our friends. So hurry over to her social media. We've
linked it all over the place. She has put up everything she talked about is available
Episode 511: Gifts for Hanukkah and Christmas with Sabrina Chazen That Sounds Fun with Annie F.
Downs
for you in her stories, on her feed. I figured that's where she's gonna put it. Those
are the two spots. And just tell her thanks so much for being on the show.
And remember when our friends who are influencers show us links and codes, we
use them because they're doing the work to find the things that we want to buy and
it doesn't cost us anything to just use their links. So let's go use Sabrina's links.
If you have any questions from this episode, drop them in the Q&A box on your
Spotify app if you're a Spotify listener, or you can send them to us on Instagram
@thatsoundsfunpodcasts. We'll try to answer them there. Make sure you're
following That Sounds Fun Podcast. It is a fun place to be.
If you need anything else from me, you know I'm embarrassingly easy to find.
Annie F. Downs on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, back in Nashville. Anywhere
you need me, that's where you can find me. I think that's it for me today, friends.
Go out or stay home, do something that sounds fun to you and I will do the same.
Today what sounds fun to me is finishing up my outline for teaching at Cross Point
on Sunday. If you're in Nashville and you want to come on, we are at 9, 11, and
5:30. And you can also watch me preach online at 9, 11, or 5:30 central. So pray for
me this weekend. Y'all have a great weekend.
We'll see you back here on Monday with, oh boy, get ready for it. Maybe the
episode you request the most. I can't believe you made time for us again, you guys.
Monday we're seeing and hearing from Santa Claus. We'll see y'all then.
